Ouch, That Hurt

Subject: Ouch, That Hurt Fri 31 Aug 2007, 12:37 pm

Does anyone know of a particular case where a ghost has physically harmed someone? There are stories of the like and Hollywood often portrayals harmful spirits but do they exist?

Age : 31 Joined : 12 Oct 2007 Posts : 254

It's very hard to tell apart ghosts and poltergeists here but there are a few interesting cases. Of course they could be imaginary or simple frauds but they are interesting nonetheless.

Eleonora Zugan, the peasant girl investigated in the '20s by Harry Price, was pinched, clawed and bitten by what she called a "dracul" or devil.

Marianne Morrison, involved in the celebrated Borley Rectory case, was reportedly punched in the eye once by the "entity".

During the Russo-Japanese War (1904-5) the cargo ship Ivan Vassili was haunted by a "presence" which enjoyed in spreading panic on board. Apparently it was responsible for a series of suicides on board.

In the '30s the cruise ship Llanstephan Castle was plagued by a series of suicides aboard (mostly young women); an unnamed passenger claimed to have "exorcised" the ship in 1938, driving a ghost which supposedly pushed passengers to their death after a lengthy struggle. Right or wrong the ship didn't suffer a single accident until it was broken down in 1952.

And to finish off the "harmful ghosts of the sea" section, why not include the case of the Ellen Austin? During the Fall of 1881 the aforementioned ship was sailing from Liverpool to Boston when it spotted another sailing ship. It was in perfect conditions but it didn't bear a name nor any other document: it was even well stocked with provisions. The captain quickly formed a prize crew to take the ship to Boston. For two days the ship sailed very closely until a storm blew them apart. When it subsided the "ghost ship" was found again... minus the prize crew. It was as if nobody has ever laid a foot on it. Again another prize crew was formed with every possible precaution: the sailors were armed and a lifeboat was tied to the side of the "ghost ship" to ensure a sppedy retreat should the need arise.
After a few hours of sailing the ships got separated by fog and the "ghost ship" was never seen again.
Of course the most superstitious sailors said it was all down to the ghosts of the seas... tha's why I've included it here!
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Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Sat 20 Oct 2007, 4:26 pm

I seem to recall watching a documentary that had a bit about a ghost/poltergheist in an Edinburgh cemetery who tended to throw people about, against the walls of a particular mausoleum, and I think even locked one poor victim in a big alcove-like crypt for a few nerve-wracking hours. Unfortunately I can't remember much more than that, but does it jog any memories?
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Age : 31 Joined : 12 Oct 2007 Posts : 254

If I remember correctly it's the so called Covenanters' Prison, in the Greyfriars Kirkyard.
The spirit is called the Mackenzie Poltergeist since it's generally believed to be the restless spirit of George Mackenzie, one of King Charles II's "hanging judges", who sent a large number of Covenanters to the scaffolds.
Curiously as much as Mackenzie has always been a much hated figure in Scottish folk traditions the haunting is very recent news.
More on that later.
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Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Sat 20 Oct 2007, 5:34 pm

Spook mentioned a book about the Mackenzie poltergiest that I have just started reading, 'The Ghost That Haunted Itself'. Most of the attacks seem to be based on tour groups, that have had a long walk to the tomb with a guide that has very much set the scene and no doubt played on their imaginations. Hard to explain physical evidence though like scratches etc, unless the people scratch themselves subconcsiously.

I have been on two cases where people have felt like they have been pushed down stone steps, one being a main staircase in an old hall, the other a spiral staircase. Each time examining the step where the incident occurred showed signs of wear and errosion on the step. People coming down suddenly hit this uneven step and tilt forward, hence some people thinging they have been pushed, particulary if the atmosphere is just right affraid

I'm not saying they were not pushed, just that there is another explanation available. It just shows what a good thorough site examination can shed light on.

Age : 31 Joined : 12 Oct 2007 Posts : 254

Local "Ghost Tour" guides say that Mackenzie was awakened in 1998 or 1999 when a drunken person desacrated his grave by trying to sleep inside the "Black Mausoleum". Some of them go to incredible lengths with very lurid details to scare the wits out of their tour groups. In such an emotionally charged enviroment it's well possible that someone feels a current of cold air or an unwilling push by a fellow thrill-seeker, so starting a stampede. And it's pretty easy to injure oneself in such a situation.
More sophisticated researchers may well argue that the Mackenzie poltergeist was created by the visitors themselves, anxious to "see the ghost". For example in Glamis Castle the local Gray Lady is said to be a quite recent phenomenon, beginning when large numbers of tourists started flocking to the castle, since there's no previous tradition. Last time I've been there a tour guide was trying to scare a group of schoolboys by pointing out the Grey Lady's favorite chair in Chapel... guess who was sitting there trying to rest for a minute?
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Fas: Ite, Maledicti, In Ignem Aeternum.

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Sun 21 Oct 2007, 3:36 pm

I remember doing an outside vigil at a mansion house in Cumbria. I was on the main driveway which was graveled and it had started to rain. It was cold and I was starting to get wet and I didn't want to be pestered by a new investigator that had just joined the group. He moaned and moaned asking me what haunted this location (obviously we don't give information out for the exact reasons this account highlights) and eventually, just to get rid of him, I told a lie. I said ghostly footsteps can be heard on the gravel drive. He went away happy. Two minutes later he was back all excited having heard them. Bare in mind it was raining and you could hear it on the gravel and the ghostly foot steps did not exist, but he could not be convinced that he had not heard them. Too this day he is happy to have heard a ghost.

Age : 31 Joined : 12 Oct 2007 Posts : 254

Another interesting case of an harmful entity: this one was investigated by Jacques Vallee and reported in his book "Confrontations" with the file name "Beacon Probe".
A woman, Frances Victor, who had previous UFO experiences, was thrown to the ground and beaten for several minute by an invisible assailant. The date was May 15 1978 and the whole episode was witnessed by a patient (Mrs. Victor worked as a nurse at the time) who called for help. Her wounds were pretty serious (including a punctured vein and a broken leg) and she was hospitalized for six days.
Whatever or not this was caused by aliens, poltergeists, ghosts, evil spirits or the power of human mind we'll never know.
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Fas: Ite, Maledicti, In Ignem Aeternum.

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Mon 22 Oct 2007, 9:41 am

I've never come across the Frances Victor attack Mauro, thanks. I'll see if I can find anything else about it.

Age : 31 Joined : 12 Oct 2007 Posts : 254

Vallee said that the Frances Victor case left him "in a state of anger and frustration".
He was angry at many self-proclaimed investigators that swarmed to the scene immediately after the first publicized sighting, wreaking havoc on her nerves and health. For example a botched attempt at hypnosis resulted in some alarming signs: body temperature dropping, a deep state of stress etc. The amateur investigators quickly woke her from trance and run away without giving any assistance. Another time a self proclaimed "UFO researcher" from a major civilian group kept pestering her family: investigations by local authorities turned out he was using a false identity. Who he was is still a mystery but episodes like these litterally destroyed Mrs. Victor's life.
He was frustrated because he could offer absolutely no explanation nor help to a person who, despite her previous experiences with "UFO people" and "paranormal researchers", was ready to give all the details she could remember, even the most painful ones, to an "heretic among heretics".
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Fas: Ite, Maledicti, In Ignem Aeternum.

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Mon 22 Oct 2007, 4:03 pm

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Mon 22 Oct 2007, 5:59 pm

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Mon 22 Oct 2007, 6:02 pm

No Lee, but you were there....somewhere.

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Mon 22 Oct 2007, 6:59 pm

Is that investigation location still private Ian ?

Subject: Re: Ouch, That Hurt Wed 24 Oct 2007, 12:13 pm