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mysteryshopper
Joined : 05 Feb 2008
Posts : 163
|  Subject: Re: TV historian required  Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:44 pm | |
| | matt.h wrote: | | That said, couldn't newspaper reports and suchlike prove fertile ground for further investigation? Alone, they shouldn't be taken as evidence but they can be good pointers to cases that need further (decent) investigation. |
Yeh sure, I was talking about accumulating data from which to produce scientifically meaningful data. The problem is that most of the ghost reports that apparently support the popular 'ghost = spirit' idea come from just such sources and are used uncritically. Carefully investigated cases produce a noticeably different picture of hauntings. |
|   | | agricola
Age : 29
Joined : 26 Feb 2008
Posts : 77
Location : Edinburgh
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:45 pm | |
| | mysteryshopper wrote: | Regarding standards of ghost reports , you just need to use common sense.
You can start by excluding all stories that were never investigated by any paranormal investigator (eg. self reported, newspaper reports, much material from ghost books).
Then look at the investigated reports and see what methods they were using. If it is all ouija, mediums and orbs then you can safely ignore it.
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Sorry but I don't think you can ignore secondary reports. Any investigator worth their salt will do a review of the literature. If, for the sake of argument, Ian of this board said to me, Muncaster Castle ia haunted, and I went there, looked around and saw no ghosts, I would come away none the wiser. Whereas if I examined the literature, I would know that there is hightened activity in X room so could have a look at the causes of this.
Now I agree that it is unlikely that ouija boards, mediums or orbs are going to ever say anything useful, but if there is a high instance of orbs coming from one room, the literature would tell you this and you could rule it out scientifically and possibly even find the source of the 'orbs'. |
| | | | agricola
Age : 29
Joined : 26 Feb 2008
Posts : 77
Location : Edinburgh
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:50 pm | |
| | Ophiel wrote: | | Quote: |
Trouble is, no one has stood up and set the standard; no protocols, no base lines, etc. |
This is simply not true. There are a host of researchers doing excellent work on ghosts / hauntings within the remit of science. They have applied and developed their methods and these have proved sound and reliable (including baseline measures etc). The fact that many 'most haunted' wannabe's don't know about it has nothing to do with the good researchers (many of whom publish widely) and the fact the protocols exist, and more to do with those MH idiots simply not bothering to read anything of real use.
| Quote: | | Problem is that most researchers have a bias of some sort and this always comes out in the investigation or reports. |
Propoer methods deal with bias - though i agree many dont use those proper methods. However, many do.
Researchers whose work you should consult (in my opinion) are: French, Braithwaite, Wiseman, Persinger, Brugger, Houran, Lange, Nickell, etc. Don't get me wrong - I am not saying I agree with everything these people are doing - but on the whole, the research is of a high standard, well controlled, produces interesting findings and generates new understandings and questions for further research.
I do agree however, that such efforts are not typical of the field - but i would always say don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone is using mediums, ouija boards and orb-catchers......  |
I'm not saying that there aren't people doing good research - both amateur and professional, but I stick by my comments on baselines, etc. The problem is that most, if not all researchers don't have one point to measure anything by. There is not a common standard for research - there are no accepted definitions, no procedures for treating a suspected case, no guidelines on how to treat a witness, nothing on ethics, etc. I'm thinking that in psychology there have general guidelines like having to debrief witnesses, definitions of diseases, etc and I just think this is something which should be campaigned for in this field - I know a handful of researchers do this, but there should be something for the wider research population. There aren't even any peer reviewed journals! |
| | | | matt.h
Joined : 30 Jan 2008
Posts : 138
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:53 pm | |
| It's frustrating how you get a real "wheat from the chaff" problem simply by the nature of how humans relate, articulate and record experiences.
It's important to be as impartial and crticial as possible, but it can be tempting to take an unsuitably cynical approach when faced with reams of testimonies and reports. |
| | | | agricola
Age : 29
Joined : 26 Feb 2008
Posts : 77
Location : Edinburgh
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 12:57 pm | |
| They do say everything has a source.
Here's an example, the piece I did on Gef the Mongoose came from a book, so I went through all the sources and, as there are no witnesses known to be alive had to resort to the newspapers, but by looking at the book accounts and the newspapers, was able to build up a picture. With this sort of story, there's little else you can do but read what's available and draw conclusions. As society changes and grows, there is always room to reinterpret things. |
| | | | mysteryshopper
Joined : 05 Feb 2008
Posts : 163
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 1:33 pm | |
| | agricola wrote: | Sorry but I don't think you can ignore secondary reports. Any investigator worth their salt will do a review of the literature. If, for the sake of argument, Ian of this board said to me, Muncaster Castle ia haunted, and I went there, looked around and saw no ghosts, I would come away none the wiser. Whereas if I examined the literature, I would know that there is hightened activity in X room so could have a look at the causes of this.
Now I agree that it is unlikely that ouija boards, mediums or orbs are going to ever say anything useful, but if there is a high instance of orbs coming from one room, the literature would tell you this and you could rule it out scientifically and possibly even find the source of the 'orbs'. |
I think you misunderstand me. I'm talking about data reliable enough to draw useful scientific conclusions from. Obviously, a newspaper report can be used to find a case but you would still need to go and interview the witnesses yourself and then examine the site personally. From cases that I know of personally, newspaper reports are generally inaccurate, incomplete and sensationalised when it comes to the paranormal. All you can usefully deduce from them is that there might be something worth looking into and its general nature.
Also, cases where people use ouija and similar methods betray obvious assumptions, on the part of the investigators, about the supposed nature of hauntings. This puts a serious systematic bias into their results that is difficult to remove, even with statistical methods.
Last edited by mysteryshopper on Thu 06 Mar 2008, 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | | mysteryshopper
Joined : 05 Feb 2008
Posts : 163
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 1:38 pm | |
| | agricola wrote: | | I'm not saying that there aren't people doing good research - both amateur and professional, but I stick by my comments on baselines, etc. The problem is that most, if not all researchers don't have one point to measure anything by. There is not a common standard for research - there are no accepted definitions, no procedures for treating a suspected case, no guidelines on how to treat a witness, nothing on ethics, etc. I'm thinking that in psychology there have general guidelines like having to debrief witnesses, definitions of diseases, etc and I just think this is something which should be campaigned for in this field - I know a handful of researchers do this, but there should be something for the wider research population. There aren't even any peer reviewed journals! |
Peer reviewed journals, off the top of my head (I'm sure there are others): Journal of Parapsychology, European Journal of Parapsychology, SPR Journal, even ASSAP's Anomaly is now peer reviewed!
Ethics & procedures: ASSAP, for one, has a Code of Conduct. They also run a training course giving full guidelines for investigating cases (where ethics and the scientific method play prominent roles) and how to treat witnesses. |
| | | | Ian
Admin
Age : 35
Joined : 24 Aug 2007
Posts : 797
Location : Carlisle, Cumbria
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Thu 06 Mar 2008, 6:34 pm | |
| | Quote: | agricola wrote:
Perhaps MysteriousBritain could pull together some technical notes or something - you guys seem to be experienced in this field? Although it would be a lot of work.
Ophiel wrote:
Try the ASSAP website - some interesting stuff there. |
We are going to be presenting an article soon on Mysteriousbritain about ASSAP which should hopefully make our readers more aware of their work and the ASSAP website.
_________________
"Sometimes I just sit and think, and sometimes I just sit". |
| | | | DJP
Joined : 05 Sep 2007
Posts : 101
Location : West Scotland
| | | | | agricola
Age : 29
Joined : 26 Feb 2008
Posts : 77
Location : Edinburgh
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Wed 02 Apr 2008, 9:25 pm | |
| | Maybe I'll join... |
| | | | LeeWat
Age : 37
Joined : 02 Sep 2007
Posts : 199
Location : Cheshire
| | Subject: Re: TV historian required Mon 07 Apr 2008, 8:38 pm | |
| Buggerit, i'll do the TV historian job. Whats the pay like ? Does it include a company mystery machine and a good dental plan and a deal at Bupa ? Can i come home at night ? Do i just have to make things up or do they have to be real ?
 mixing beer with prescription painkillers is really the way forward it makes you think so clearly |
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