Here Come The Men In Black

Hand in hand with UFO sightings come the 'Men In Black'. Sinister Government Agents (perhaps) who investigate UFO's and cover up proof that Aliens are visiting us. They have of course be popularised in comic books and by Hollywood (I just wanted to use sunglasses there) but do they exist?

I remember speaking to a UFO investigator who who told me he had been mistaken as a Man In Black. He and his collegues were in suits when visiting an office or some such building connected to a UFO case, it may have been a police station or newspaper, I can't remember. However, as they left the building they were spotted by other UFO investigators who were subsequently informed that the group thay had seen leaving was also interested in the UFO. They put the suits and common UFO interest together and then reported it as a sighting of Men In Black.

the Cumberland Spaceman photo is quite famous - picture of a little girl taken on Brough marsh with a 'spacesuited' figure behind, when the witness saw nothing. But the MIB were intrigued - and a month after the sighting two men dressed in black driving a dark jaguar car visited the family, and took the husband to the sighting location, asked many questions and left him alone on the moors when he denied seeing a 'spaceman'.

Under the circumstances - the area was near a building site for Blue Streak rockets bound for Woomera, Australia - maybe the men were MOD. In this case though, they wanted the witness to say he HAD seen a spaceman!

I think I just read about a mistaken identity - the well suited individuals visiting witnesses in Heywood, Lancashire in 1989 were members of NARO (Northern Anomolies Research Association), although the MIB connection was made by the media, who seemingly will twist anything to liven up a story.

Heywood in Lancs? Not very far from my old stomping grounds in Oldham , which has had it's fair share of UFO sightings in the past.

<the appearance depends upon who is looking>

that might be true - sightings of UFO's and aliens seem always to be one step away from present day eg. sightings of angels in the past, dragons in the sky during the middle ages, airships during the 1800's and now 'spaceships'. Maybe the sightings reflect a common human psychological conditioning based on societies expectations of the unknown. Religious people have visions of angels or demons, others of faeries or aliens yet the descriptions are often similar...
MIB sightings seem to be another facet of such paranormal activity

apt name indrid!

So do you think that cases where people come into physical contact with so called MIB's they are probably just mistaken identities?

no - but in America the impression is that either the MIBs are government agents (like the movie) or aliens - I prefer reporter/investigator John Keel's explanation - they are ultraterrestrial. Not quite human, not quite of this dimension either. Less outerspace, more one step removed from our dimension. They act damned wierd, yet their threats amount to nothing. Few people have died after witnessing a UFO - those that have may be due to after effects of burns and radiation, not at the hands of MIB.

<who is indrid cold? ... Who is indrid cold? 35 minutes ago - 3 days left to answer. You will see in time>

thats the spirit, cold

<This isn't the time. If there is a universal mind, must it necessarily be sane?>

MIB encounters are often accompanied by strange phonecalls and messages - possible hoaxes by CIA etc but quite often very peculiar noises and effects - beeping, or electronic wailing noises (often associated with UFO encounters too), and strange sayings or questions hinting that the person is being bugged eg. repetition of events known only to the person called, or pretending to be a person the recipient knows, but failing to carry the hoax off by easily revealing their lack of knowledge of the person they are impersonating.

UFO encounters seem to feature such voices and beeps, as if the person is in a trance and the sounds are cues to enter/leave the suggestible state.

All as peculiar as Indrid.

stephen wrote:

the Cumberland Spaceman photo is quite famous - picture of a little girl taken on Brough marsh with a 'spacesuited' figure behind, when the witness saw nothing. But the MIB were intrigued - and a month after the sighting two men dressed in black driving a dark jaguar car visited the family, and took the husband to the sighting location, asked many questions and left him alone on the moors when he denied seeing a 'spaceman'.

Under the circumstances - the area was near a building site for Blue Streak rockets bound for Woomera, Australia - maybe the men were MOD. In this case though, they wanted the witness to say he HAD seen a spaceman!

I remember this photo I remember reading (it was probably Fortean Times) that experts looked at the photo, and despite the "helmet" showing a visor-type structure, the stance of the figure suggested that it's back was to the photographer. It's all weird though; you hardly expect to take a photo and have an alien pop up and go "hullo". It's a bit of a silly composition, like the girl's brother was making mischeif, holding up an action man doll behind her or something...


With regards to perceptions of aliens and UFOs. It's odd that it seems to have followed popular culture. You look at articles and "artist's interps" of UFOs in the 50s, then watch a good old classic Sci-fi B-movie. Then look at modern renderings and watch a modern movie or show. Is there any correlation? Just out of curiosity.

As for Men in Black. I guess it's never anything I've given much thought... I haven't really read up enough on them, but some of the thigns I've read seem to conflict. On one side they're described as undoubtedly human, akin to the ones popularised by the comic and movies (based on the comics), and on the other, they have been descibed as anything but human, but taking hte form of human. As I say though, it's just snippets I've picked up over time.

interesting fact is that many of the US airforce people involved in UFO investigations also got themselves involved in the creation of early UFO movies as technical advisors etc as part of a disinformation plan - create movies that portray ufo's and aliens in a hollywood melodramatic light and it takes the witnesses mind off the idea that quite a lot of sightings were of secret military tests (the main theory of the old roswell crash is that it was a top secret skyhook balloon carrying radiation sensors and the like - so it WAS a balloon, but it was still secret, and it was a damned wierd looking one too as it was designed for high altitude and was basically a string of weather balloons). So creating the idea in the publics imagination that UFO's were from another planet, therefore beyond the airforce's interest, helped along the cover up of normal military operations, and made the witnesses look foolish. However, I still think that despite genuine sightings the US has no real idea what UFO's are.
The saucer shape comes from the Kenneth Arnold description in the press, but he witnessed crescent shaped craft (or birds as many now think!). It's easy to make a saucer shape for a hollywood movie - Plan 9 from outer space literally used paper saucers!!
Oddly enough though, very few movies have had a classic alien form - even 'close encounters' was more a version of ET in the head area.

With regards to Roswell, I heard things about the Japanese developing bombs that were attatched to a sort of lightweight zeppelin that was timed to burst over US airspace. Could the "spaceship" have been one of these baloon bombs? Seeing as it was only 2 years after the war, is it possible this was a stray that had effectly rendered itself harmless (or even the reason why the Roswell incident was hushed up) and belatedly burst?

The classic alien form you refer to, Greys? I remember them in Fire in the Sky, and possibly Communion? Of course they basic idea was used in the X Files, and I think Dark Skies, and another show called Earth:Final Conflict (I think it was??). I guess the "grey" just isn't specacular enough for Hollywood, although arguably, Independence Day took the basic idea of the "grey" and made them considerably more "badass"

yes the japanese balloon bombs were thought of as the cause for a time - but their existence was well known (an amazing invention the balloon used the airstream to fly from Japan all the way to America, but the only deaths attributed to them were a couple of civilians despite thousands being released). The farmer who initially found the Roswell wreck did know what these balloons looked like, as well as normal US balloons released over the area by the US airforce - in fact there was a reward for the return of the usual weather balloons.

<The Mothman vinyl line has been created by renowned artist David Horvath, co-creator of Uglydolls. He has created a line of Japanese vinyl figurines that currently numbers seven. The figurines include Eye Witness, TNT Area, Silver Bridge, Point Pleasant, Indrid Cold, Prophecy, and Chernobyl types. The figurines were produced in editions of fifty or one hundred, depending on the version. The complete set has earned a permanent place at the Mothman Museum in Point Pleasant. $99 of fear on the wall>

mmmmm, that last post was pulled pretty much verbatim off Wikipedia. In't the Internet a great thing.
However the $99 of fear on the wall could start a sing song going

I think Indrid is copying a lot of the mothman media - not as mad as witness Andy Colvin though - his website is a mess of MIB paranoia! Try harder Indrid :-)

Best paranormal song top ten? hmmmmmm for the mysterious britain karaoke party?

I have already related the Frances Victor case in which an unknown man presented himself as an investigator of a major civil research organization.
He was accompanied by a strange smell and kept pestering the Victor family for more information. When they finally contacted the local police he disappeared: turned out he was using a false identity.
Was he a Man In Black or simply some kind of maniac?
A famous French case, the so called Dr. X case, involved a strange man who contacted the main witness, Dr. X. He was well dressed, with brown hair and blue eyes. He had the impeccable manners of a true gentleman, spoke a flawless French and drove around in an immaculate Citroen DS, at the time a very expensive brand new car.
He was once spotted (though this fact has not been verified) driving through the main gate of the French Ministry of Interior Affairs, the guards saluting.
Later he visited Dr. X accompanied by a dwarfish being with "mummified skin".
The Dr. X case is considered one of the best documented cases in European ufology but who was the well-mannered unnamed stranger? If he was some kind of government agent why was he accompanied by that small monstruosity?

It would appear that the Men in Black had something of a revival following the Stephenville sightings.
While obvioulsy some of the tales are either fabricated or embellished to draw more attention (and possibly money) from the media, there are some recurring patterns.
For example a witness claims to have been contacted by a "Man in Black" (I like the sound of it so I'll use it as catch-all term) who identified himself as an US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel who tried to strike a deal with him: if he would keep quiet about his experience, the noisy flyovers on his property by military helicopters from the Fort Hood army base would immediately stop. Apparently this high ranking officer has not been identified (should not be too hard) and we are left to wonder how an Air Force officer can so easily control Army activities.
This is consistent with many eyewitnesses of the '50s and '60s who claimed to have been contacted by military officers who tried either intimidating or cajoling them into silence. These officers are always quite high ranked (majors being the most common) and, more often than not, they turn out to be non-existant, at least on the usually accurate military records.
Also there have been a number of sightings of so-called "black helicopters". I have always been very cautious regarding these unmarked, unusually silent aircrafts: witnesses do not seem to be able to identify the model but there are not that many helicopter models in service around the world and a search on the Internet or a simple "aircraft-spotter" manual can quickly solve the mystery. This is never (or rarely) attempted by investigators: why not showing some helicopter pictures and ask "was it this one?"?

Umm.. No Offence To ANyone.. I Thought it was Only a Film...

The sheer weirdness of MIB accounts is fascinating - the case of "Tiny" in Mothman Prophecies springs to mind. This element suggests that we're either looking at something that it entirely a product of imagination (there does seem to be a link between the surreal aspects of dreams and of some MIB reports) or the aforementioned definition from John Keel that has them as strange liminal beings. This second theory - admittedly a little "out there" - could well have scope for human imagination to still play a role.

Matt, according to Dr Allen Hynek and other "scientific" UFO researchers what really defines a UFO as such is the astounding capability to manipulate the surrounding enviroment, including the witnesses' perception. Since we have no idea how this is achieved, yet is seemengly within the boundaries of known physics, we talk about "physical" theory as opposed to the usual "extraterrestrial" theory. The classic example is the following: you suddenly become aware that you must look at the sky, you do and surely there's your good old UFO there. Suddenly it's not there anymore: you haven't seen it go away or accelerate yet it's not there anymore and you know it's gone.
There have been a few disturbing cases in which a witness with a camera readily at hand felt compelled to simply look at the sky without snapping any picture. In my opinion this is much more disturbing than military men knocking at your door and asking you to "keep quiet" or turn over your UFO pictures or else...
Many persons seem to consider John Keel your average "weirdo" but when I started digging more into it I felt that his theories of extradimensional and limal beings may not be so silly as they sound. The present "multiverse" system of physics do not forbid them and, as usual, while we are wondering at the latest multistring theory even more advanced theories are being developed at physics symposiums all around the world: these will see the light of the day in 10-15 years and as a researcher put it bluntly "it would take me two days just to explain the basis to you and then you probably would know as much as before". Sometimes I wonder if studying chemistry was the right course of action...

A little off topic but probably still relevant to debate: Has anybody read Supernatural by Graham Hancock. Some of his speculation is interesting especially about other dimensional beings and worlds (an explanation for the men in black?). OK, Graham is a mysteries writer, and his main route of experimentation in the book is to take copious amounts of plant hallucinogens used by tribal cultures, but he does touch on UFO experiences that seem to be mirrored in his psychadelic experimentation. It's a bit of a tome so you would have to read it to get the idea (Graham: publicity cheques in the post please).