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 Unconsecrated burials

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Neil

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Location : Carlisle, Cumbria, UK
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PostSubject: Unconsecrated burials   Mon 08 Oct 2007, 11:43 am

In the pub the other day, Ian was asking me about Neil Moss, a caver who died whilst exploring Peak Cavern, Derbyshire in the late 1950s. His remains were left in-situ, and the fissure in which he got into difficulty and died was sealed up at the request of Neil's father, due to the unacceptable risks posed towards any attempt to retrieve his remains.

This link contains the story of Neil Moss, and information on many other unconsecrated burials around the UK as researched by the site owner.
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Ian
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PostSubject: Re: Unconsecrated burials   Tue 09 Oct 2007, 6:55 am

As a fellow caver it's a very sobering story. Peak Cavern has got a link to the paranormal too:

Known charmingly as the 'Devils Arse' in past centuries, the cavern has long been seen as an entrance to the otherworld.

Legend tells how during the one winter during the Middle Ages, a swineherd lost one of his sows. In fear of what his master the Lord of Peveril Castle would do, and desperate to find his animal, he decided to enter the cavern even though he feared it almost as much as his lord.

He walked deep into the cave and eventually emerged into bright sunlight. Before him stood a broad plain in the peak of the years harvest. The weather was warm and the land seemed to be in the flourish of Summer. He managed to find his sow and the Lord of the land allowed him to return back through the cavern. He emerged into this world and back to the cold of Midwinter.

The cavern was probably venerated in the past as a sacred place where the veil between this world and the next was thin. It is likely that it became associated with the Devil in later times under the influence of the church.

I suppose there are lot of war graves out there on sunken ships etc too.
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Urisk

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PostSubject: Re: Unconsecrated burials   Wed 10 Oct 2007, 5:46 am

Certainly will be, Ian. And not just war graves. I dare say that a good many fishermen, and coastal dwellers, were swept away by the tide and lost. Who knows how many people crossing rivers were claimed by the "kelpie" of that river, or the "each uisge" of a deep loch, or "Unidines" pulling victims into a lake or pond? Bearing in mind that even in summer, most of a loch's water will be bitterly cold (and probably as much so with lakes furhter south!), even if the surface waters are pleasant. All it takes is for one to plunge into a deep part and hit the thermocline.


With regards to the "Devil's Arse" (great name by the way Laughing), that is a superb story Very Happy There are many caves that were seen as these magical doors to the Celtic otherworld. In an attempt by the Normans (or possibly earlier by the Roman Catholics) to drive away the last remnants of the old religions (where before Christainity and Paganism seemed to be equally practised faiths, hand in hand by the Celtic peoples of Britain), this is when all these associations with the devil cropped up- from Pan, Puck, the Phooka and the Urisk, all were closely associated with nature, and shared more than a passing resemblence to the goaty wonder.
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Ian
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PostSubject: Re: Unconsecrated burials   Wed 10 Oct 2007, 6:37 am

When did we start giving the Devil horns? Was it when Christianity started persecuting followers of the old religions with their Horned God?

The famous cross legged image of goat headed Baphoment was first devised by Eliphas Levi in the late 1800's. http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/elphas_levi.html

Do you think that these trips to the underworld and being held their by the faerie folk could also be compared to some UFO abductions?
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Urisk

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PostSubject: Re: Unconsecrated burials   Wed 10 Oct 2007, 8:56 am

Interesting. I suppose it is possible that abductions by aliens could have been attributed to the "Faery folks". The other thing is that the Celtic belief system was very hazy as to the link between the Faeries and the dead. Many ancient barrows were thought of as Fairy Knowes, the hollow hils where the faeries took mortally wounded heroes to live with them forever, such as King Arthur (it is possible, in folklore at least, that Avalon- the Land of the Apples- may have been just one of these barrow/hollow hill sites).
But then... why do the faeries necessarily have to be aliens? Who's to say it's not the other way around... and as humans have evolved intellecutally and technologically, so to might they, only with a little more "magic" than ourselves... affraid pale

As for the Hroned God. Certainly, I'm sure Satan was just depicted as nothing more than an Angel like his brethren... but the modern Baphomet style is certainly an amalgamation of the Pan, Cernunos and Epona deities, among others, designed to villify the old religions... It's just a pity that the people in power weren't as tollerant as their religion told them to be... but then they wouldn't have gotten all that lovely power, eh? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Unconsecrated burials   Wed 10 Oct 2007, 9:49 am

Fairy Mounds.....check our latest article out.

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/netta.html
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